Minutes of the All Party Group for Reserve Forces meeting Tuesday 4 March 2009.
Lt General Sir Freddie Viggers KCB CMG MBE, Chairman of the Council of RFCAs and Air Vice Marshal Paul Luker, Chief Executive of the Council of RFCAs
Present:
Julian Brazier MP (Chairing)
Rt Hon Bruce George MP
Lord Attlee
Lord Freeman
James Grey MP
Gerald Howarth MP
Julian Lewis MP
Lord Luke
Lord De Mauley TD
Laura Moffatt MP
Dr. Andrew Murrison MP
Ken Purchase MP
Lord Rogan
Sir Peter Viggers MP
In Attendance:
Julian Radcliffe, Clerk
Richard Dixon, Deputy Clerk
Paul Beaver
Joel Charles, Researcher to Julian Brazier
Julian Brazier welcomed General Viggers and Air Vice Marshal Paul Luker to the meeting of the All Party Group on Reserve Forces.
General Viggers said that although cadets were a very important and growing part of the RFCA’s business, tonight would focus on the Reserves. He said that he was going to put into context what the RFCAs do and the issues and challenges facing them. Paul Luker would then talk about the Reserve Review.
The Council of the RFCA in London was not in authority over the 13 Associations covering the country, but offered the corporate view to Government, the MOD and the Services chains of command. Robert Haldane had sought to ensure that each Association was autonomous in many areas of activity to reflect the regional perspective. The RFCAs were still totally independent, but worked with and in support of the chain of command. This was their major strength.
Turning to the operational context, the General said that up to 1,800 - 2000 reservists were serving on operations both as individual reinforcements and formed units. These were totally integrated into the armed forces and individually were indistinguishable from their regular counterparts.
He singled out the Medical Reserves operating in Afghanistan, which had been particularly successful. This technical support by the TA had been pivotal.
The General saw three main issues to be addressed.
Firstly, as a result of the pre-operational training, operational tour and the post tour phase taking up to a year it placed much pressure on the Reservist’s job, family and commitment to the armed forces. This was especially so with repeat tours.
Second, citing the position of surgeons that could not expect to be in an operational theatre for 6 months – there has to be flexibility. Terms and Conditions of Service need to be flexible, neutral and not disadvantage the employers. This was most important.
Third, there must be adequate welfare support. Where is the safety net?
He went on to say that at home Territorial units were often the only military presence in many places. They were able to carry out the community engagement that was unable to be carried out by regular forces. In the Army, support to the Regular structure came through the 1000 Full Time Reserve Service (FTRS) posts, relieving the well-known undermining situation. This also allowed their regular counterparts to be deployed on operations. This was of considerable value.
The challenges for the future were: Manning, to ensure that there were sufficient trained soldiers; Resources, both money and the time to train, together with places to train were needed. He also wanted to see sufficient delegation of authority and resources to allow the Commanding Officer to command his unit and achieve the stated mission.
The General then handed over to Air Vice Marshal Paul Luker.
He stated that the RFCA’s view that the Reserves review is one of incompleted business. The Review started late, had a condensed timetable with a large canvas carried out by a small, mixed team. The result was in his view a very mixed product.
The principles on which the future of the reserves were considered had been agreed by all. However the resulting detailed recommendations, some of which did not look coherent, were receiving a mixed reception.
He went on to say that the nature of reserves had changed. The reserves are for use. The report puts utility for current operations ahead of niche capability – a problem if those capabilities become needed after all. However the RFCAs are concerned that the proposals will not be matched by the changes recommended.
On the question of manning he said that each service had different problems and that career structures were different for each service. Citing the TA establishment at an ideal 42,000 it was not possible to count exactly what the strength was, although the figure was probably in the low 30,000s.
He was concerned that aspects of recruiting focused on the next operational tour and not for building the unit and nurturing the cadre – officers and NCOs – needed to maintain the ethos and cohesion of the unit. This was particularly the case in the Royal Marine Reserve and Auxiliary Air Force Squadrons.
Officer recruiting was generally poor and it was proving difficult to maintain the officer corps. The move to One Army recruiting (and its Naval and Air equivalents) could be a good thing, but is not working well at present. It does need proper resourcing. Furthermore, there appears to be a tendency to look for a single model, but there is a need for flexibility – reserves are different from regulars and different from area to area. The flexibility does not seem to be there. There needs to be a balanced and an adaptable system.
A key area is seen to be the footprint of the services. He cited his own service that was 100,000 strong when he joined with a footprint in every county, including Rutland. If one wanted to recruit - who is now selling the message? The Reserve Forces and Cadets have to sell the RAF, but the reserves are disadvantaged by being co-located with Regular RAF bases. The footprint needs to be where communities are in the big cities and not just in RAF bases. The RFCA wants to keep a balanced approach.
Paul Luker said that there are some economies to be made in the RFCA organisation, but they must be made in a coherent way. It needs further discussion on the size and shape of what is required. Without this work being carried out first, it is impossible to get the footprint on the estate correct.
Julian Brazier thanked the guests for their presentation and invited questions from members.
QUESTIONS
James Grey – said he had question on manning. He cited the case of his stepson, aged 16, and in his CCF, wanting to be an officer in the Royal Marines. He wanted to try the RMR as a ‘taster’ of this career, but was told that he would have to be prepared for a deployment to Afghanistan. As a result of this apparent inflexible approach he was re-thinking his career. He thought that this was a peculiar approach to obtaining young officers. Julian Brazier commented that the RN seemed to be less imaginative in its thinking on reserves than the other two services.
Paul Luker replied saying that first of all there was a change of purpose with reservists and that anyone joining must be prepared to deploy on operations. He said that the Royal Marines had a difficult task to support a Commando when deploying. Nevertheless he also stated that TA officers were being encouraged to serve in their gap year, with a more flexible approach.
Laura Moffatt expressed surprise that we were still struggling to know the exact number of reservists and asked how this could be.
She also asked Paul Luker to expand on this rather short-term approach to Royal Marine recruiting.
Paul Luker replied saying that it was difficult to know effective numbers, although actual numbers on the book were known. There was always an element of those numbers who were being brought onto strength and another number that were in the process of leaving.
The database was a fluid tool and one could never know the exact position. He accepted that we ought to know!
He stated that the Royal Marines were using recruiting as a tool for operational deployment. Many young men wanted to join and challenging targets were in place to bring them up to strength.
He also commented that many reservists were very nervous about declaring their reservist status to a new employer, but this should also be seen to be an opportunity, for instance a REME unit could recruit at a location near a Honda factory.
General Viggers commented that there were good opportunities available especially for the self-employed. He felt that it was more important to get the quality of reservists right rather than put too much emphasis on numbers. He felt that getting the right trades were also important and wondered how many paramedics, a vital resource to the medical services, were available.
Lord De Mauley said how good it was to hear that the RFCAs remained independent of the chain of command as was envisaged, with great insight, by Robert Haldane. (The meeting concurred with his statement). He said that numbers could not be over 100% as the system was inflexible and asked why not.
Paul Luker said it was very difficult for a Reserve unit to be 100%. Man Training Days (MTD) should be used as a way of establishing the health of a unit. The Commanding Officer needed the freedom to use MTDs and not have them used as an control.
The General commented that from an Army point of view, recruiting should be devolved to the local area and let the Commanding Officer get on with it in regard to numbers.
In answer to another question regarding the proliferation of computer programmes designed solely for processing purposes and of limited use to the command function, Paul Luker said that JPA currently had many people not on it – such as the CCF officers. He also said that it was only recently that the TA came on system and it was producing a lot of teething problems. There was a long way to still to go.
Lord Freeman, President of the RFCA, commenting on the Reserve Review, asked when a statement would be made.
Paul Luker said that this was under discussion in the MOD and there was an intention to publish at the end of March.
Lord Attlee said that officer recruiting was a major problem. There was more and more commissioning taking place of Senior NCOs and, although some of these were of excellent quality and experience, it hid the fact that less and less junior officers were being commissioned by direct entry.
Paul Luker said that many senior Captains and Majors had stuck with it. Some had completed 2 and 3 tours. He agreed the real issue was growing new ones and that if you did not have career officers there will be real problems in the future.
Lord Attlee replied that he had asked a parliamentary question on the breakdown between categories of officers, but had not received a very satisfactory reply.
The General said that talks had started with OTCs. Those leaving university were being encouraged to join the TA. The RFCAs would talk to employers to obtain their support.
Julian Brazier commented that this already happened in Australia and the USA
James Grey asked if the Committee could ask for a debate on the Reserve Review.
Julian Brazier said that he thought the minister would welcome this. He felt that it could be as an adjournment debate. He further commented that the APG on Reserve Forces had been very helpful in applying pressure.
Andrew Murison said that an oral statement might be the answer.
Laura Moffatt said she was prepared to take up this with Bob Ainsworth.
Julian Brazier thanked the General and Air Vice Marshall Luker for a most interesting and informative talk. He reinforced Lord De Mauley’s comment, saying that it was great to hear that the RFCAs taking such an independent line.
Richard Dixon
Deputy clerk to the APG on Reserve Forces